“We have to be compassionate”

Dr. Durga Pokhrel, Ed.D., Ed.M., MPA, (Harvard University, USA) was a rebel with a cause in the days when women did not have a voice. A strong advocate of democracy in the pre-democracy days, she fled the country fearing for her life. She recently returned to her roots after having spent 16 years in the USA. She is now a writer and consultant in international education, public policy, democracy, human rights, women’s and children’s issues and spirituality. Sushma Amatya of The Independent spoke with her recently. Excerpts of the interview:

Q: You have come a long way. Are you satisfied with the way things have turned out for you?
A: I think so. You choose a way in life. When circumstances became extremely difficult  and I could not do what I wanted, I had to leave.

Q: What did you want to do then?
A: My priority then was to teach, research. I started teaching in a school in Dhankuta when I was fifteen. Later, I got into journalism and got more involved in the movement. The paper was banned, I was jailed and gradually the situation became very tense. In America, I could do much more than what I could have done here. I completed my studies. But I did not want to disappear from Nepal. After all, I was involved in the struggle for democracy since my early teens. Though I wanted to come back, I could not due to my other responsibilities after my marriage and three children.   Now, after things improved in my personal life, I’m back here with my family. With all the given situation, I am happy now. I feel positive about life. Had I stayed on here, things would have been certainly very different.  It all depends how you view things, what your goals are.

Q: What do you do these days?
A: My three boys keep me quite busy. I’m also trying to write a series of the events of the past 16 years in Nepal.

Q: What other books have you written after The Shadow Over Shangri-La?
A: I have yet to send  Rape of Dharma for publication since I want to update the first chapter. It is about non-political women who were victims of the political system here. It is based on  human rights issue. The second book is based on my thesis in Harvard University. The third is based on my experiences in America, how a foreigner sees America and the fourth, on parenting. I have also written a few books for children that await illustration.

Q: What were the high and low points you experienced during the pre-democracy days?
A: I felt great when I was successful in organising the underground movement in Dhankuta. Then I also used to organise literary programmes covertly, distribute phamplets and so on.  The lowest point was in 1979 when I was arrested. The authorities then wanted me to confess that I wanted to kidnap the crown prince. It came as a brutal shock since I have always been for a constitutional monarchy system with a benevolent king in the traditional Vedic tradition. With this accusation against me, I felt that I could not get out of this conspiracy designed to break me or get rid of me. My two other colleagues had already been executed on similar other charges.

Q: Do you think all the pain you went through, the time and effort you put in for the cause was worth it?
A: Yes. After the multi-party came, (I will not call it democracy as I do not think democracy is here in its true sense)  people cannot get rid of you for saying something. Freedom of expression and association which are so important for any society has become possible now.

Q: What is your opinion on the state of our country today?
A: It is a mixed feeling that I have got. In America, everybody I met with said that Nepal has gone downhill to a point of no return. But after coming here and after absorbing what is going on for the past two months, I don’t feel that way. There are two things going on simultaneously here. The people who are in power are immature and inexperienced; trying to run the country in their own way. They do not even seem aware of what is going on. They are not providing the facilities and services to the people. On the other hand, some people in the private sector are doing great things for the country. Unfortunately, there lacks connection and coordination between the two.  

Q: What do you think are the main reasons behind this scenario? How can it be changed?
A: This is the result of lack of experience in the people who are in power. It is easy to go against the system but very difficult to build and sustain a new system. Lots of compassion, a history behind a person and at least some training are the prerequisites to be a leader. Incompetent leaders should be phased out. We just cant’ let the country collapse, we have to do something. There are so many starting points, vantage points here. The people need to be taken into consideration. We have to try and understand what they want and how they can be helped. We have to make the people understand that they also have power, what democracy means and how it can affect their day to day lives.

Q: Will you be getting involved in politics again?
A: Definitely. To do something positive, not just for the position. By the next elections, I will be involved in politics.

Q: How has all your experiences changed you as a person?
A: Thinking  back, I feel that for all the bad, tough experiences that I went through, I feel very empowered and am a better person today. I survived. I never gave up, thanks to the confidence I had in myself and in what I was doing.

Q: What kept you going during the dark days in the jail?
A: Meditation. That is the greatest gift my father gave me. I used to meditate with him when I was as young as six years old.

Q: What kind of feedback have you received from your book Shadow Over Shangri la?
A: Somebody from Australia sent me an email saying that one of their universities has kept the book as a course book in political anthropology. In USA it was a tremendous success. I was called in for many TV programmes- if that is any measurement of success. Voice of America gave an hour programme each in English and Nepali. And of course’ there were many reviews. In Nepal, a store did keep some copies of the book- I really do not know how it is doing here.

Q: Do you think human rights is being honoured in Nepal today?
A: No, it is not. You just hit the point on which my second book revolves around. Dharma really means the duties of each individual and it is being ignored in our society. From this appear all the ills in our system. The essence of what our scriptures say has now been grossly misinterpreted. You should see the conditions in our jails. There are hundred percent sane women who have been put in there by their husbands with the excuse that they are insane. 50 per cent of women there are the victims of their husbands or other relatives. You should see how the inmates are treated. Does human rights exist for them?

Q: How, in your opinion can we be free from the bondage of poverty, corruption and communalism that is eating away the roots of our society today?
A: The problem could have been nipped in bud in 1990 by giving the opposition a say. Still, there is a chance by starting a reform movement that has to start from bottoms up. The reverse is difficult now. It is not an ideological movement but a movement of awareness. I am sure there are people who are not after money and power and who do care about the masses and the country. We could get such like-minded people together and sow the seeds of awareness.

Q: Do you think this would restore people’s faith in the political system and the leaders?
A: It may not be possible to reform the existing leaders but by reforming the system, we can gain people’s faith. The excuse of the transition period is running out now. Ten years is too long a time.

Q: You mentioned in your book that ‘In time Nepal may become a society of equal opportunity’. Do you hope to see that happen in your life-time?
A: Definitely. I am going to work for that. It is difficult but not impossible.

Q: None of the politicians had the courage to stand up for the women’s equal inheritance rights bill. Do you think you will be able to change things once you enter the political mainstream?
A: It can be possible even without a political platform. The society has to accept the idea of equal rights first. Parents have to realise that it is not the question of dividing a house into two or more. It is providing equal opportunities, equal treatment for their male and female children. After all both are capable of contributing to the society, to the family, equally. The never ending want of the society of a male child and its’ preference over a female child has to end. Only law does not help. Law is only the reflection of the social system. Educating the people, the parents comes first.

Q: How have you changed after living abroad?
A: I have become a lot more nationalistic than I would ever have become had I stayed on here. I realise we have so much more to contribute to the west in terms of inner peace and culture. Western way of life may be attractive at first but it is so shallow. If we build up on our value system and strengthen our social network, we’d be a nation with much more happiness. But we do need to learn about hard work from them. We tend to be lazy. We also need to impart spiritual values to our children and get over this sheen of superficiality that has covered our society. Now, I feel strongly about getting like-minded people together and start a network of awareness, of values that our society is so lacking today.