NATIONAL 4 - (Spotlight Weekly)

‘Thaw Is Setting In’— CHAKRA PRASAD BASTOLA

Foreign Minister CHAKRA PRASAD BASTOLA is supposed to be one of the well-known foreign policy experts in the ruling Congress party. Bastola, who also had served as a Royal Nepalese Ambassador to India, recently paid an official visit to India. Bastola's visit may have helped thaw the chilled relations between Nepal and India after the prolonged suspension of Indian Airline's flight to Nepal to KESHAB POUDEL on different issues of Nepal-India relations and his recent visit to India. Excerpts:

What is the state of Nepal-India relations at the present moment?

Well, that is very interesting in terms of the fact that I recently completed an official visit. I would say thaw is setting in. You know what happened when my official visit was slated, I looked into the files to go into details. What was striking to me was that various mechanisms to deal with various subjects relating to the various problems were there and that I found out that meetings had not been held for the last two or three years. It showed that there was clearly something wrong. That was the first thing that attracted me. I wanted to know the reasons behind it. I was not in a hurry. So I just tried to find out why. Then, it gradually occurred to me that we had hung parliaments here with changes of many governments. Then there was election. In India, too, they had two general elections and unstable governments. Due to such circumstances, we were very much preoccupied with our own national affairs. So bilateral relations took the back seat. The rest (of the problems) must have been built on that.

You mean to say that the relations are now improving?

Well, I would say so.

Despite the declarations by leaders of both countries of very close and age-old relations, why Nepal-India relations suffer from periodic aberrations?

Basically, we are countries with traditional mindset and, of course, very much influenced by social, cultural and religious feelings. Now on the one hand we are bound by traditional background and on the other hand we have to build modern international relations. What happens is these two forces play upon each other. One is the strength of tradition and the other is weakness of modern state power politics. I think this is the reason why we have problems at different times.

With your experience about Indian behavior, what do you think influences the mindset of Indian statesmen regarding their attitude towards Nepal?

I find it very common among people and leaders who have never been to India or have never interacted and studied there and never had close interactions with Indians in general and Indian leaders in particular. They feel that Indians are big brotherly type or rather high handed. Honestly speaking, I have not had such sort of feelings and I have not experienced that. But it is not to say that I have never experienced such situation. I am not circumscribed by that short of a psychology.

Generally, the educated classes in Nepal think that South Block in Delhi at times, adopts arigid stand towards Nepal?

What I was emphasizing was we have marvelous relations and you can work it out any time if you are rational enough with the people and leaders of India. But when it goes to the bureaucracy, you don't find that people-level relations percolating down to the bureaucratic level.

It is widely believed that Nepalese intellectuals nourish prejudiced sentiments about India. Do you agree?

As I have already mentioned that it is being circumscribed by the psychology. There is another aspect to that. Like our modernization started at a time when the cold war was at its apex. We have really living memories of cold war that has created a very deep sentiments and understanding among the Nepalese to take side for or against India. That has affected the situation. It is not domestic but external situation that has a bearing on our mind set.

Now that India has agreed to resume the suspended flight of Indian Airlines and chilled bilateral relations are getting warmer, do you think there was any justification for India to have suspended the flights to Nepal for such along time?

Now it is over and let it be over. I would not like to dig into things which are not worthwhile. But I have said to the Indian Foreign Minister that Nepalese people have been badly hurt by the incidents. I have communicated this at the various level.

It is alleged that Nepalese sides always lack the detailed homework and consequently end up in unfavorable situation while signing any kind of agreement with India. Do you have any comments?

Well, I would not particularly like to be so harsh on our bureaucracy but the situation is globally similar. Good hands have been performing well in global fora as well. It is globally that they are making their presence felt.

Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala is visiting India very soon. What do you think is the number one item in the agenda of talks with his Indian counterpart?

All national issues are number one issues. You cannot put them on hierarchical order, all are equally important. Some are short term issues and others are long term. I think that is how we look at it. In order to seek the resolutions to them, you have to prioritize. You don't find the solution of all the problems at the same time.

At a time when our national sovereignty has been affected, don't we seem to be thick-skinned by raising normal issues and giving the issues like Kalapani a backseat?

I will not like to mix the Kalapani and other border problems. But one thing is, yes our way of looking at sovereignty. The situation and context at this time prevailing globally is just the opposite. I am not saying that the issue of sovereignty is less significant but how do you define sovereignty. Sovereignty nowadays is basically measured in terms of your economic strength which in turn makes you politically strong. Say for instance, if you are economically and human resource-wise strong, it would not cause us any worries. But our understanding of sovereignty is, at times, rather ausere.

Nepal is a very small land-locked country. Do you think that our physical vulnerability is mainly responsible for our economic backwardness?

It is not a question of vulnerability but viability also. Say for instance, we have one of the rarest resources like water resources. Countries with petrol, natural gas, knowledge base and human base resources have become rich. We have not even developed our resource for our own benefit. So how do we look at this. For instance, we just produce 300 MW electricity and we are still buying power from India. I fail to understand our outlook about power. National power is built on human and natural resources and we are not even prepared to harness and develop our resources.

SAARC could have a been very useful medium for the overall development of the whole of the South Asian region. At the prevailing situation, do you think SAARC will ever take off?

Well, this is not a question of wishing for something. When you ask me will SAARC take off, whom do you think I should ask this question to? Except ask ourselves. We must make the best use of SAARC for our common advantage.

Now you are shortly going to meet the foreign minister of Bhutan. Do you foresee any progress in the long standing problem of the repatriation of Bhutanese refugees?

I don't have any preconceived notions about the meeting. I would like to talk clearly. We have already spent the last ten years negotiating. I am not saying that there are no problems but it needs some home work.

Now coming back to the domestic politics, how do you see the problems within Nepali Congress party?

I don't think the party will simply break on the ground of small scale differences. Every one understands the consequences of dis-unity in the party.