NATIONAL 4 - (Spotlight Weekly)

‘Political Commitment Is Necessary To Curb Corruption’

— INGRID OFSTAD

INGRID OFSTAD is Norway's ambassador to Nepal. Norway opened its embassy in Kathmandu last year and Ofstad was appointed ambassador three months ago.She spoke to KESHAB POUDEL and SANJAYA DHAKAL on various issues of bilateral concern. Excerpts:

The Norwegian government is involved in the Basic and Primary Education Project in Nepal. What are your impressions of the project?

There are still some difficult parts when it comes to really decentralizing the planning and implementation of the program. I hope there will be more activity in the field soon, more concerned children and parents can build alliances with local school teachers, and gradually power moves from the central ministry to the district and school levels. High quality education can only be achieved when there is demand for education from the local level .

How did the Norwegian government decide to become involved in the project?

We think providing education to children including girls is the most important area for the development of the country. The level of education here is very low. We believe that when children get education, they will have greater access to participate in development. Education is also one of the basic rights.

How do you assess the overall development assistance of Norway to Nepal?

Assistance through the government is very new. Nepal became a main partner for Norwegian cooperation only in late 1996. Therefore, we are still building the government support program. Traditionally, our support has been through NGOs - which we believe has been quite successful - and Norwegian companies. As for government-to-government cooperation, it is a bit early to measure the effects.

What is your experience in the Khimti hydropower project?

Khimti is the first big foreign private investment in Nepal. The Norwegian company that was responsible for the project had its problems. Being the first one, the government was not properly prepared to handle the large private investment. Both parties had to learn along the way. For the Norwegian hydropower sector, it was a new experience to work outside Norway. There was lots of learning along the way.

Based on your experience with Khimti, what measures do you suggest Nepal should take to attract greater foreign investment in developing hydropower?

I believe there is still a lot to be done to make Nepal become more investment-friendly. The decisions from the government's side may be the major problem, as they are inconsistent. It is not easy to be a foreign investor in Nepal. One is not completely sure whether there is an agreement in Nepalese society that you want foreign investors. There is a need for a broader consensus in society on how Nepal shall deal with foreign investors.

What are the major areas of cooperation between Nepal and Norway?

The major areas of cooperation are basic and primary education, hydropower development, mainly by private investors, and the Melamchi Water Supply Project for Kathmandu valley. There has been support through NGOs also.

The trade volume between Nepal and Norway is insignificant. What can be done to increase bilateral trade?

I think this is an area that we need to explore. Norway is a very small country with very few people. I am not so sure it could be a large market for Nepal. Nevertheless, there are possibilities for expansion. I think we have to sit down with the Federation of Nepalese Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FNCCI) and others to find ways to increase exports from Nepal.

What is your position on the Melamchi project? How much support are you willing to provide to the project?

The NORAD board is going to meet on February 20 to make a final decision. We believe that we will provide a total assistance of US$32 million - $25 million for the construction of the tunnel and $7 million for the planning. We hope that all the donors, including the World Bank, come along. This is an extremely complex and huge project. People in Kathmandu valley need water, that's why we want to support the project. In fact, the people are quite desperate for water. Extra supply of water is however not enough, it is also important to have an efficient distribution system working so that you do not lose the costly water on its way to the consumers.

How will Norway's involvement in the hydropower sector change if the Norwegian company bags the Butwal Power Project (BPC)?

This is up to the private sector. A private Norwegian company is bidding for the BPC. As I understand it, a Nepalese-Norwegian consortium is interested in developing the electricity distribution system linked to hydropower development to enable more use of electricity locally to develop industries. As I understand it, they are keen on developing hydropower together with electricity distribution. That is why they are interested in BPC.

As Norway has a long experience in hydropower development, how do you think Nepal needs to manage its water resources?

Our country was developed through hydropower. That was not so long ago. Hydropower plants were linked to development of industry and the rural society around the plant. Now Norway does not have more hydropower resources to develop. The potential of the hydropower development in Nepal, is great. But you need to work on how to use hydropower - not only how to develop it . I hope you can use it for your own development. Of course, there is also the possibility of exporting power to India if you want to make big money. But I think you can use it more directly for your own development.

Frequent changes in the government's policy on hydropower are said to have discouraged potential investors. What do you say?

I do not think it is the hydropower policy that stops investment. It may be that the general climate for foreign investors is difficult. When it comes to a policy, you have a policy wanting to attract foreign investors. Therefore, the stumbling block may be the implementation, not the policy.

How do you assess the process of democratization in Nepal?

I feel democracy here is not yet very stable. There are many challenges in building a democratic society from the bottom. You have a parliament and you have elections. But democracy is much more than that. Democratic institutions, including an independent media, are vital parts. So is the participation of people in general. Still there are many exclusions based on caste, ethnicity and gender. If you want to build a true democratic society, you have to have everybody on board. And that is still a long way from here. I am worried about the violent forces in this society. I hope to see more demands for peace and more demands for reconciliation. That is also important in terms of attracting foreign investment. I wish that the people were more active in demanding peace.

How about problems of good governance and corruption?

I agree with those demanding stronger anti-corruption measures in society and the strengthening of the Commission for Investigation of Abuse of Authority (CIAA) and parliament's Public Accounts Committee (PAC). A corruption-free society can also attract more foreign aid and investment. I think you have done a lot. But still there is much more to be done. The state will have to change, be more transparent and accoutible, and the civil society, local government and private sector will have to play a greater role. When the Nepal Development Forum met last April in Paris, the issue of governance was brought up in a major way because it is seen as the major obstacle for poverty alleviation in the country.

Which is the bigger challenge for Nepal-corruption or poverty?

It is poverty. But you cannot fight poverty successfully if you have corruption in society.

Scandinavian countries, including Norway, have an impressive record in good governance and discouraging corruption. What is the reason?

I think it has a lot to do with equality in the society and the participation of the people who can control what the government does. A high level of education, strong participation of people, both men and women, are some of the reasons .

There is a lot of confusion in Nepal over whether it is the role of the government or of constitutional bodies to curb corruption. Can constitutional bodies like the CIAA alone curb corruption, or do we also need strong political commitment?

Of course, political commitment is necessary to curb corruption. Only when you have firm political commitment can you have strong institutions that can fight corruption.

‘My Program Has Become Part Of Viewers' Daily Life’

— SANTOSH PANTA

Santosh Panta is the inimitable TV comedian whose weekly socio-satirical serial "Hijo Aajaka Kura" enjoys a cult-like following among Nepalese viewers cutting across age and community lines. The director/actor of the most watched program on Nepal Television, Panta is one of the best known faces in the country. The fabulous entertainer recently completed the 300th episode of his weekly program - the first such feat achieved by anyone in the history of Nepalese television - and is still going strong. He spoke to SANJAYA DHAKAL last week at his residence in Dhapasi about his work and success. Excerpts:

Many comedy-based programs have been shown on Nepal Television. But only you have managed to come up with them so consistently. What is the reason behind your success?

My programs do not undermine the audience. I do not engage in cheap humor. You can make people laugh by painting your nose red, too. However, that does not last long. What I do in my programs is show the realities of our lives. Current affairs and things like politics and culture, which affect the lives of middle-class people - that is what I focus on. There is not merely laughter in it but also some message. The reason my program could run so well is that it has become a part of the day-to-day life of my viewers.

You have been faithfully coming up with your programs every Friday. How do you find fresh story ideas week after week?

There are many events and issues coming up every day. When even daily newspapers are finding enough issues to go on, mine is just a weekly program. The only thing is that you have to have the ability to grasp these issues and turn them into programs that will be loved by the audience. Journalists like you see news in an incident while I see stories in them. That's how I am going on.

How do you find the state of humor-satire in Nepal? How viable has the sector become in terms of financial gain?

It has improved a lot compared to the past. It has come a long way. Nepalese artists are now able to survive on their creative profession alone. They are getting the chance to show their talents abroad, too. Even if you are a little-known face, you have the chance to go overseas for shows and so on. There is also the chance to make money from overseas programs. There are many Nepalese living outside the country who invite Nepalese artistes from time to time. The number of Nepalese films is also growing. Though the remuneration from acting in Nepalese films is still poor, the artistes can expect to earn more by becoming involved in many of them at a time. So, this sector has become very good in terms of financial gain, too.

This is said to be the age of satellite and cable TV. Most people in urban areas prefer foreign channels to Nepal Television. Still your program is one of the very few on NTV that is watched by many, including the urban youth. Why is that so?

I don't make programs that are exclusive for any one group of audience. I vary my stories so that I can cater to all people possible. I always receive comments from members of the older generation that I should focus more on socio-political aspects while youths tell me to show their side of stories, too. So, I try to strike a balance. I divide my programs among women, the elderly, working class and the youth. On some weeks, the program caters to the taste of women; on others, I focus on the concerns of employees and so on.

Your programs have been praised for their incisive display of social ills. What do you think of the present political and social problems of the country? Where is the country going?

I am confused whether there is a government or not here. The situation is so chaotic that if the leaders try to say this is how democracy looks like, then, I am afraid, the people will misunderstand democracy. While democracy is the system for the people, by the people and of the people, the situation here is such that one is forced to say the system is for the leader, by the leader and of the leader. In the last decade, the people have witnessed nothing more than corruption, economic decline and political instability. How are the people understanding democracy? Imagine a 10-year-old boy in 1990 who has grown up into a 20-year-old now. How has he perceived the democracy in the country? If you ask this question to him, the answer will probably be "chakka jam", "Nepal Bandhs", strikes, corruption, scandals, inflation, infighting and so on. This could be one main reason why the youth are going away from the country. They don't see a future here. Only those proficient in the arts of deception and cunning can expect to rise here. But for those who wish to walk in the right direction, there is no track. The

situation, therefore, is a very sad one. If this kind of situation persists for some years, then the time will have come to rethink.

You have complained that while you were not recognized for your TV serials, the media associated your name with a certain controversial program in Kathmandu. Besides, you have also criticized the lack of respect for artistes here. What do you say?

Look, there is a strange way of respecting artistes in this country. They respect artistes by dividing the awards. The practice of giving awards is such that they give one honor to a particular artiste one year and give that to another artiste the following year. They divide awards to ensure everybody gets it, but not necessarily based on merit. In my case, I was given the Gorkha Dakshin Bahu in 1991. At that time, I hadn't even started my TV serial. But after so many years of producing the serial, I have not received any awards so far. So, in a way it is strange that you are not recognized when you are active in helping the society. It makes no sense recognizing me 20 years after I contributed to society.

Your program is aired through state-owned NTV. Do you find any difficulties such as censorship, as you often make fun of the government?

It happens at times. However, having gained so much experience in producing such serials, I know where their shoe pinches. I know how much of the satire will go uncensored and which ones have to be refined to get through without compromising on the message.

Do you plan to get involved on the big screen, especially after your vast experience in working on the small one?

The only difference between the small and big screen is in technology. Making films demands huge investments, which I don't have at my disposal. I am happy and satisfied with my TV profession now. Maybe after some years when I decide to take rest from TV, I might become involved in films. But I am not the kind of person who will mortgage his house to invest in films. In my view, if artistes run after money, their talent will suffer.

There is a charge that you pick people from your own close circle to work in your serial and do not give chance to others. What do you say?

That is a baseless allegation. You can see for yourself. Rama Thapaliya, who frequently plays as my wife in the serial, is not related to me. In fact, my own wife has not played in a single TV serial so far. Nitesh Raj Panta, my nephew, who is the chief assistant director of Hijo Aajaka Kura is himself a talented artiste. Even then, I only give him a chance once in a couple of months. If you come to my house on Mondays, you can find a long queue of aspiring artistes. I have to give them a chance turn by turn.

How do you play different characters so well? Do you study the characters beforehand?

I do. Study of characters is important. You cannot portray characters unless you study them in real life. For example, if I have to play the role of a doctor, I need to know how doctors speak, what kind of terminology they use and so on.

How long does it take you to produce an episode?

Three days. Two days for shooting and one for editing. Three people -- myself, Nitesh and Pramod Sharma -- sit down and prepare the subject of the episode, drawing it from the major events of the week, and then shoot it.

Do you have your own equipment?

No, I use the equipment, including the camera, of Nepal Television. They are quite costly to buy.

What about your earnings?

Well, I earn to my satisfaction. What I earn is enough to support my living standard. Overall, it is good.

How did you become involved in this sector?

In fact, I have been involved in this sector since I was seven years of age. At seven, I had already earned two medals from the King and the Queen. I started as child dancer.

Do you want to work in private channels, too?

Being a media person, I have no objection to working in private channels. But then, I would like to have the kind of viewership I am currently have through NTV, which airs my program on prime time.

How do you find the public response?

Very, very warm and respectful. I find people genuinely appreciating my efforts. If you look at people respecting politicians and ministers, it is out of fear and other things. But to people like us, the people give genuine respect. I am very satisfied by that.