National 4 (Spotlight Weekly)

‘Countries Of South Asia Have Similar Experiences Regarding Their Security And Territorial Integrity Due To The Policies Of One Large Neighbor’

— Zamir Akram

Zamir Akram is the ambassador of Pakistan to the Kingdom of Nepal. A career diplomat, Akram spoke to SPOTLIGHT on various relevant issues relating to Nepal-Pakistan relations. Excerpts:

What is the state of Nepal-Pakistan relations at the moment?

The state of Nepal-Pakistan relations is excellent. We have close cooperation in all fields. There are no difficulties between our two countries. We greatly support and respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of each other.

Even though Nepal and Pakistan have been friends for nearly five decades, the relationship has always remained shallow and superficial. Why do you think it is so?

I would not agree that it is shallow and superficial. There are very deep-rooted interests that we share like respect for each others sovereignty and territorial integrity. We are against the domination of any country by another. As countries of South Asia, these are very important bases for relations between our two countries. Of course, there is room for further development and promotion of relations.

Nepal, at the moment, is plagued by a bloody civil war. In what manner can Pakistan help Nepal to resolve this issue?

This is Nepal's internal affair. It is for the people of Nepal to find what is the best way to resolve it. We sincerely believe in the policy of non-interference. We think people of Nepal are capable of finding a solution. But if we can be of help, in any way, in terms of economic, political or other assistance, we are ready to look into it. It is up to the government of Nepal to see if we can be of any help to Nepal.

Pakistan's commitment to fight global terrorism makes it imperative on her to rid South Asia of all forms of terrorism. What is Pakistan planning on that score?

Pakistan is opposed to all forms of terrorism. We oppose terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. Pakistan is currently a key partner in the international effort to tackle terrorism. We are prepared to cooperate with all country in this regard. What is not known to many countries is that Pakistan, itself, has for many decades been a victim of terrorism - much before this problem became an international issue. It is an issue that has been haunting us ever since Soviet Union-backed regime came up in Kabul. But I must say that when we talk about terrorism, we must distinguish between terrorism and a freedom movement. A freedom movement should not be equated with terrorism as some countries are doing. The other thing that I must say is that terrorism is perpetrated not only by individuals or groups but also by states and their agencies. All forms of terrorism whether by individuals or groups or countries is equally reprehensible.

The SAARC was founded seventeen years ago for the overall development of the region. Why, do you think, it has not been able to even take off?

The main reason is that there are basic contradictions betequal. None of the members is more equal than others.

If India could attend the eleventh SAARC Summit in Kathmandu, why do you think, she decided to boycott the twelfth summit that was scheduled to be held in Pakistan?

We have heard many different kinds of reasons coming from New Delhi. We don't know which is the real reason. Sometimes we are told that it was because Pakistan was allegedly doing things that were unacceptable and therefore they would attend only if it is stopped. At other times they are saying that not enough progress had been made, especially in the economic sector such as the finalization of the agreement on SAFTA. So, I really fail to understand what the real reason is because none of the allegations that are being made by New Delhi are correct. In any event, SAARC is a multilateral forum. It is not a forum where bilateral issues can or should obstruct progress. Secondly, when we are told that progress is not made on SAFTA or other things; that is not the responsibility entirely of Pakistan. We have certain views about SAFTA and so do others. It is wrong to say that any one country is holding up progress. There was a study that should have been concluded prior to the conclusion of SAFTA. Experts to conduct such a study was appointed just in November, 2002. So it is completely wrong to put the blame on Pakistan.

How do you foresee the future of the SAARC?

It will depend on the role that member states play. If the role is positive and if it is one in which we are going to address issues existing between all of us, in a fair, equitable and just manner, then it is going to succeed. But if it is going to become an instrument to promote hegemony, then I am sorry, it is not going to work.

The well being of all smaller nations of South Asia is directly linked to the resolutions of Pak-India rivalry. The arms race, even nuclear, that is bedeviling the relations of both presages very grave repercussions in the region. How do you view the situation?

We are opposed to confrontation especially in an environment of nuclear deterrence between two countries of the region. We are in favor of a dialogue. A dialogue which is realistic, that aims at addressing and resolving issues between member states of this region. Different issues involve different countries of the region. Some are territorial disputes, some are related to population movements, sharing of water, distribution of energy and many others. These need to addressed through dialogue. We reject any attempt by any country to impose its will on another country. And we believe that this kind of approach, especially in the age of nuclear deterrence, is not only counterproductive but extremely dangerous.

Kashmir has been the cause for bad blood between Pakistan and India for more than five decades. In a situation when the United Nations resolution is not being implemented, how does Pakistan plan to arrive at an amicable settlement of the problem? Is Pakistan thinking of reactivating the U.N. resolution?

This issue of reactivation does not arise because U.N. resolutions once adopted remain in force unless changed by other U.N. resolutions. So, the U.N. resolutions on Kashmir remain valid and operational. The question is for the international community to implement them. We have been calling upon the international community to honor their commitments. We must also look at the situation from a practical political point of view. Ultimately, the fate of the people of Kashmir can only be decided by the people of Kashmir. No one else can decide for them. The U.N. resolutions provide international community with a mechanism by which the Kashmiri people could make a decision about their future. Ultimately, a solution to this issue will have to depend on the Kashmiris exercising their right of self-determination. Other than that, no solution will be able to work.

In an atmosphere of grave mistrust and misgivings persisting in South Asian region, how do you see the future of the region?

I think that all countries concerned must realize that they are paying a very heavy price. You spoke about Kashmir, the heaviest price is being paid by the people of Kashmir because they are being killed on a daily basis. But the price is also being paid by other parties to this dispute - Pakistan and India. So, we need to realize that we cannot continue to pay this price indefinitely. And also there is an opportunity cost in terms of developing our relations in areas where we all will benefit. There are several areas where mutual cooperation between the nations of South Asian can be beneficial to the entire region. One example is in the transportation of oil and gas pipeline that can run from Central Asia to South Asia through Afghanistan and Pakistan. Central Asia is energy rich and South Asia is energy deficient. It makes sense to promote this kind of linkages. Pakistan and other countries of the region are going to benefit from it. But we see that despite these obvious advantages, some countries are not even prepared to talk.

In speedily exploiting the huge water resources of Nepal do you see possibility of sharing the energy among South Asian nations?

We don't share a border with Nepal so it is up to Nepal to decide what is in its best interest in terms of sharing its resources with its neighbors. We feel that it is a good idea to promote such cooperation if it is beneficial to both countries. The bottom-line is that it has to be mutually beneficial.

How does Pakistan view the sudden growth of Hindu fundamentalism in India? Will it affect her bilateral relations with India?

We are disturbed by this development because as we have seen in the recent elections in Gujarat, using an anti-Pakistan and anti-Muslim platform has become a recipe for political victory. This kind of approach can only have a negative impact on the communal environment in our neighboring country. We have a concern because millions of Pakistanis have millions of Muslim relatives there. We are also mindful of the kind of reaction this approach can have in Pakistan and Muslims all over the world who are concerned about the welfare of Indian Muslims.

The trade and commercial relations between Nepal and Pakistan have not been able to develop even to a satisfactory level. What must be done to accelerate their development and growth?

The main reason is that there is difficulty in transit between the two countries. Nepal being a land-locked country, it has certain rights regarding transit and trade. We have found in our experience that these transit facilities have not been extended to the level and satisfaction of the Nepalese or the Pakistani side. We have to look at ways of overcoming this problem and find ways to circumvent it. We have to do some new thinking and become imaginative. We also need to work for a regional environment in which transit is recognized as a right, which cannot be stepped upon or denied and we are keen to see that this kind of environment emerges in the region. Free trade under SAFTA is not possible if there is no free movement of trade and services.

Given the situation where China is also showing interest to support/join SAARC, what do you think is the possibility of using the trans-Himalayan route?

Absolutely, this is what I mean. We have to do some new thinking. We have to look outside the box. And this is one of the ways. There are other ways, which we need to explore. I am sure this is not a permanent problem.

India often accuses Nepal of promoting ISI activities. How do you find it?

I find these accusations ridiculous. We have said it time and again that Pakistan does not indulge in such activities. Secondly, it is very easy to blame somebody else for one's internal problems. They need to look at their own acts of omission and commission, which have created the problems they are facing. They are blaming Pakistan and they are also blaming other countries in the region for their problems. Blaming someone else is not the solution. Thirdly, it is ridiculous to think that we would come all the way to Nepal to do something like this. People who make these claims need to look at geography before they start making these kinds of accusations because they end up making accusations that make them look very stupid. Fourthly, these accusations are actually being made to cover up their own inability or unwillingness to address concerns that the people and government of Nepal have regarding the activities the Maoists. Now, there is no explanation being given, as far as I am aware, as to why these activities that originate from the territories of our common neighbor cannot be controlled. On the other hand, Nepal is being accused of allowing such activities by Pakistan. I think that this is a cover-up to divert attention from their own failure to deliver on their commitments to Nepal.

Being a student of international relations, how do you see this region coping with a situation where two big powers are engaged in covert or overt operations to gain some kind of supremacy?

To put it in blunt terms, Pakistan is not involved in any effort at regional domination. This is from our strategic policy. Our policy is geared towards ensuring our security and territorial integrity. Unfortunately, countries of South Asia have similar experiences regarding their security and territorial integrity due to the policies of one large neighbor. We are opposed to any kind of hegemony or domination. Our entire effort has been to ensure our capability to defend our sovereignty and territorial integrity. By the grace of God we are today in a position to be able to do so. That brings me to the point of what happens in the future. Now that South Asia is a nuclearized region where a system of nuclear deterrence operates, it would be a gross miscalculation on the part of any country to think that in this environment they can pursue policies of domination and hegemony. Any attempt to do that would lead to a situation of great catastrophe. It would be a complete misreading of the political and strategic realities in South Asia.

China has border with Pakistan, Nepal, India and Bhutan. How do you see China's role in the power balance in this region?

Pakistan's relations with China are extremely close. We have always seen China as a country that plays a positive and stabilizing role. We believe that a greater role by China in our region is going to be a positive development. The role of a major world power like China will have a positive impact in terms of peace and security in South Asia.

Recently, Indian finance minister proposed an idea of South Asian union. How do you see it?

First things first. We must first make SAARC a success. Of course, there is potential for more cooperation. In this context, effort has to be made by everyone to make SAARC a success. Before achieving this to divert attention towards some hypothetical environment seems to be an unrealistic proposition at this point. We must first learn to walk before we can run.