National 4 (Spotlight Weekly)

‘Nepal Should Blend Modernization With Indigenous Wisdom’

— PROFESSOR SUEYOSHI TOBA

Professor Sueyoshi Toba, a visiting professor at the Central Department of Linguistics, Tribhuvan University, has been living in Nepal for the last 32 years. A Japanese citizen, Toba, 64, knows more about Nepal than most Nepalese do. He came to Nepal in 1969 and spent more than a decade in villages in eastern Nepal. Toba spoke to KESHAB POUDEL at his small rented room in Jawalakhel on various issues relating to his long experience in the country. Excerpts:

As a long-time resident of this country, how do you view Nepal?

Nepal is a culturally rich country where you find natural variety and various strata of people. It is very interesting to observe this richness of culture and nature. I am not a mountain climber, but I enjoy nature. I always wanted to come to Nepal after I was told of the beautiful mountains. I enjoyed the beauty of the mountains while visiting various parts of the country. I have walked in areas close to almost all peaks. Kathmandu is sort of melting point where you can see people from all over the country. People come and go, as young people come to get education. I enjoy teaching at the university. I found interest in field research. I was assigned to work in eastern Nepal with Rais just south of Mt. Everest. The area is very rugged, astride high mountains, but beautiful. I lived there for five years. There was no electricity or water supply but the people were very friendly and hard working. We learned their language. We also wanted to help them, so we did medical work and teaching. We develop relations with the local people. While living in the village, we learned how rural people live. In spite of a hard life, they are very active and alive. We have many memorable experiences. At the same time, we helped them in whatever way we could in carrying out development programs, including health and water projects. In the area of health, we encouraged rural people to build toilets.

You have witnessed three decades of political, cultural and economic transformation of Nepalese society. What are your impressions?

Overall, things have been changing gradually, but drastically in towns. Kathmandu was very classical in the beginning. There was a medieval-type ambience in the Newar community. Then came cars. When I first arrived, there were no Japanese cars. The roads had Indian Ambassador cars. At the time of King Birendra's wedding, 48 Japanese cars arrived. Those cars were later sold to the people. That changed the traffic complexion. People started to build modern buildings. Then came the Ring Road. While it was being built, there were arguments on who would use the road. Now you can see the Ring Road fully used for development. Changes took place drastically in towns, while the villages, especially where I lived, remained largely unchanged. Primary education was spreading and secondary schools were being constructed. Police stations came up, which were subsequently burnt by Maoists. Agriculture centers came to the village. Slowly, the village started to change. But there is still no electricity. I have seen drastic change in towns and very slow change in villages. Development has been fast and has created imbalances. Differences in economic standards are such that the rural people want to become rich and come to towns. That is why the population in towns has increased by many folds.

Don't you think proper health, education and other facilities have been extended to rural areas?

During this course of change, the infrastructures of society, such as government institutions, began to operate in the villages under the Panchayat regime. When democracy was restored, villagers got more powers to elect their own people and decide their own fate. With that, some development, including bridges, school buildings, agriculture centers and health posts, has come. Despite all this, villages remain neglected.

How do you view the level of awareness in villages?

People are not aware about development issues, since they do not have enough education. Many people see Kathmandu valley as Nepal and the city is like heaven to them. They come here to get something. People want to build electricity plants and drinking water projects but the mountains are so rugged that it is impossible to do so. We invited some Japanese engineers and electricians to design a small hydro plant, but they found the place too difficult. The weather is extreme, as it changes from torrential monsoon rain to heat and cold. This makes it difficult to maintain development projects.

Don't you think expansion of roads has brought improvement in the life of the people?

I don't know much about western Nepal, but you have some roads in the east. I have worked from Dhankuta to Jiri. There was no good road link. The government has a plan to build roads linking mountainous areas. During the Panchayat days, a member of the Rastriya Panchayat promised to do that, but it is yet to be realized. There are some airstrips.

You grew up in a developed part of the world. What made you come to Nepal to work?

Because of the natural and human diversity, Nepal has attracted me. My stay in Nepal has not been economically different. I lived in the Japanese countryside. During the war, I experienced hard times. I went to high school bare-footed because there were no shoes available. I knew the Nepalese situation very well. I did not find Nepal a difficult place to live at all. Young people might find it very difficult. My difficult experience back home was an advantage for me. I came to Nepal with purpose of helping the Nepalese people. The modernization of Japan has been gradual. Nothing changed overnight. The earlier generations of Japanese worked hard and transformed the country step by step. I remember the time when war had destroyed everything in Japan. Even Tokyo was terrible, but slowly it was built. I believe Nepal can achieve what Japan has. Nepal can achieve quick development with foreign experience, but it should not go for quick development. It must go slowly and steadily.

Nepal has been passing through a very difficult phase. Do you foresee the restoration of normalcy soon?

Definitely. I have great expectations. There are no differences between the development aspirations of Nepalese and Japanese, as everybody aspires for a better life. Everyone says Nepal is 'khatam' but it is wrong to say that. If everybody has great expectations, we can develop.

What is required to change rural life?

You need to change the mind of the people. I see the dominance of fatalistic thinking. People say they don't know what will happen tomorrow. If we start to think that nothing will improve on the political and economic fronts, that is fatalistic thinking. You need determination to improve the situation. So it is the mind-set that we have to change. Japanese, too, were influenced by fatalistic thinking. But after the war, our thinking changed completely and everybody started to think anew. Nepal is experiencing what we had experienced 50 years back. You have to start thinking of a bright future to achieve it.

Nepal is a country of diverse cultures and ethnic groups. How do you see the evolution of languages?

First of all, Nepali is a very useful language and spread after Prithvi Narayan Shah unified the country. This brought national unity from east to west. One language is very successful. Without it, the country cannot be unified. As far as other languages are concerned, they are neglected. We have a communication gap and through these languages, people can lift their thinking. Everybody is learning Nepali, which is very important. At the same time, people speaking other languages must develop their own consciousness and try to incorporate it into the national conscience. They are developing their own languages. Language is not a divisive factor. It is a unifying factor. Nepal has many languages, which is a strong asset. In Japan, we have only one living language, but we had several languages. Our grandfathers destroyed all the other languages to make Japanese more effective. Many groups are now trying to revive the other languages in Japan. But it is difficult to revive a language. We have to encourage and accept languages while they are still alive. The minorities' languages contribute to the national language. English absorbed so many languages, including French, German, and Latin. Nepali can be developed by absorbing words from other languages. Many Newari words are used in Nepali. As far as language diversity is concerned, I believe that will strengthen national unity and enrich the national culture. I teach in Tribhuvan University and many Brahmins are studying the ethnic languages. There are many brilliant people. That is a very good indication of acceptance of other cultures and languages.

Where have dominant Nepali words come from?

English is gradually coming up. Many intellectuals and the urban elite are using English words. In each sentence they speak, there are a few English words. Not as many as English words Hindi speakers are using. Mostly educated people in Kathmandu use English. Even Radio Nepal uses Nepali mixing so many English words. English is gradually coming into the Nepali language. If you use the first dictionary of Bal Chandra Sharma, you find fewer English words. But you find many words in newer dictionaries. Nepali also borrows words from Newari, Hindi and Urdu.

How do you see the influence of other languages?

Nepali is based on Sanskrit, so there are so many Sanskrit words. There are many Hindi, Urdu and Farsi words, too. Words like Kitap come from Urdu. Nepali came from the west. Nepali is a language of Indo-Aryan origin, which comes from Sanskrit.

How many languages are there in Nepal?

I estimate that there are 60 to 62 languages. Our reports give 60 languages, some like Kusunda and Dura are dying. We cannot find every language but we have tried hard to collect as many as we can. There are more languages in the Tibeto-Burman category than Indo-Aryan. There are at least four language families spoken in Nepal, Indo-Aryan, Tibeto-Burman, Austro-Asiatic, and Dravidian. We don't know which group Kusunda belongs to, as I studied the language 30 years ago. I met the last person who spoke Kusunda language long ago. Nepal is at a crossroads linguistically. Botanists say Nepal's variety is similar to Japan's. Even the word order of sentence of Nepalese and Japanese is the same. Linguistically, there are differences.

How does it feel to live in a country with such diverse cultures and languages?

In a diverse society, one of the important parts is adjustment. We have to accept everyone. In Japan, everybody speaks the same language and has the same culture. I appreciate the diversity of Nepali culture. People live together and talk together. We live with very good relations with Brahmin, Chhetri and Rai family. Some Chhetris are very aggressive, but later, I learned that they have such a character. So I accepted them and they accepted me.

Is the modernization process easy?

The modernization process is difficult and takes a long time. Western ideas are not always good. Use your indigenous wisdom. Japanese accepted the good things from the West and rejected the bad things. There are some good ideas in your culture. As globalization proceeds, we have to adjust with modernization using our indigenous wisdom. Nepalese society, culture and tradition have their own wisdom. When you accept the traditional education system, you have to accept it. When you are practicing a democratic system, you have to educate the people. In Japan, right after the war we were compelled to read democracy in our textbook. There are no textbooks in the schools in Nepal.

How do you see relations among religious and ethnic groups in Nepal?

There is unity in diversity in principle. You have Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims and Christians. If you understand and recognize who they are, then you should be able to live in harmony.

What is the character of Nepalese people?

People must live together and accept the culture of others. Everyone can live together. Problems come only when someone says you are wrong and you say you are right. Living together is important.

How do you see the overall situation in Nepal?

There is a natural tendency in Nepal for assimilation and that is the natural cause. The key to living together is respecting other religions and cultures. This is the message of harmony I have learnt in Nepal.

Do you see any similarities between Nepali and Japanese languages?

As a linguist, I would like to, first of all, explore how language connects Nepal and Japan. Let us first examine similarities from a linguistic aspect. Although Nepali and Japanese languages belong to different families - Nepali is an Indo-European language whilst Japanese is classified as an Asiatic language. Still we have many common characters.

You have spent 30 years in Nepal teaching at an institution of higher education? How do you look at the quality of education?

There are many good intellectuals who hold broad views. The education system is not bad. The people who teach or who learn should put in greater effort. I regularly go to classes, but they are often disturbed. Quality is not a system itself but the result of joint efforts of teacher and student. If both work hard, I am sure Nepalese can be as good as Americans and any other people of the world. I went to the United States for my graduation. I knew I had to work harder to learn English as a second language. Nepalese, too, have to try harder. After all, Nepalese are hard-working people. We need to develop the feeling that teachers and students should work hard to improve the quality of education.

How do you see the future of higher education?

Everybody realizes the need to improve the quality. The linguistics department is doing quite well. I am very optimistic about the future of quality education in Nepal. The condition is not a problem. It has more to do with attitude of thinking.

Sandwiched between two great civilizations and powers, how do you see Nepal?

Japan, too, finds itself caught in the middle, although we don't have big nations. But the situation is exactly the same. Politically America is on one side and Russia and especially China are on the other. We are not geographically but politically sandwiched. Therefore, Japanese have to make many efforts. Nepal is geographically in the middle between two big countries, but Nepalese have to do their best. The difficulties faced by Nepal can be an advantage to achieve faster development and growth. You are pressed by two countries but it can be used to your advantage. But, again, it is a question of mind-set. You have a bright future. I am optimistic.